BKWCI wrote:I don't go for the idea of mixing activator with paste. A few years ago I worked with a couple of paperhangers that did this. We were doing a round stairhall with a high end handprint from Hinson. They had activator mixed with the Heavy duty clear. Bill, I've never had a problem with clears flowing through a machine. That suggestion to cut with pre-pasted activator was for getting clay to flow in a machine. From where I sit clears don't need this kind of tweaking, so I can't say what your paperhangers were trying to do there with the HD clear. The basic problem with clay and machines is that many types of clays aren't "clingy"; i.e. they don't cling to the pickup roller of the machine which results in gaps on the roller that have no paste. (Here's another tip for that problem which may or may not be obvious......when you are having this kind of flow problem with clay in the machine, pull the sheet through more slowly. This allows the clay more time to flow up to the pickup roller and fill the voids around the thing.)
Activator is about 90 to 95% water anyway but when added to water (in powder form) it makes the water thicker(viscosity). So I think that when you add an activator to paste (ready mixed or one you mix yourself) it makes the paste only appear thicker.
To each his own. Whatever works for you.
Bill Kraves

 

Bill
I can't say this works for me since I rarely use clay anymore. I just thought I would mention the activator trick as "another way to skin a cat" by a Guild member who mentioned it in an article in the Installer. I got the impression that he was mixing a ready mixed prepasted activator into ready mixed paste and not using a powdered activator.

What I liked about his idea was that, theoretically mind you, it solves the problem of having diluted paste go sour. Their biocide systems are only effective when the paste is unadulterated by added water. But it seems logical IMO that if you add 1 quart of a mildew/bio protected fluid to 3 quarts of mildew/bio protected paste in order to thin it, then you would have 4 quart of a mildew/bio protected mixture---that's all. (Now in practice one may find out that one manufacturer's midewcides and other biocides are incompatible , which could cause a green gas to issue from the pot that kills small animals. This is why I love this kind of stuff.)

As far as solids content goes, it would seem like a good idea to add activator instead of water for dilution. Even though activators only have 5% solids, that's still 5% more solids than water has which is zero...unless you live in one of those towns that draws it's drinking water from the Mississippi.
But as you imply, there's more to this that just diluting paste. What one is hoping to do is to thin the clay AND change it's "clinginess" attributes so that it gets drawn to the pickup roller on a machine. That's why I suggest to the bold hearted who want to do this kind of thing, to start with Shur-Stik Activator which is a very clingy concoction. ( The Shur-Stik reminds me of their C-ll and that folks is a very clingy paste indeed. ) If you want to avoid this type of Mr. Wizard-type experimentation altogether, you can just stay with the excellent clears on the market just as they are, like Pro-880 or Dynamite/ICI 234 HD. When you whip these up and use them undiluted they can be just as tacky as clays-you just have to be patient and wait a little longer to let them tack up. It just isn't as much fun.
Jim